Okay I’m all about amending and editing but not at the expense of the content. An interview I did with Knifeshow featured here was dramatically changed, the pace and gravity of what I and the artists were talking about suffered. Since I didn’t sign any sort of agreement about disclosure here it is:
Barakaat Livan: The music market is a tough realm to find yourself in, no matter who you are or how much you enjoy coming up with original compositions. Have you cultivated any “tricks” or methods to help you cope with such a strenuous reality?
Nat Weiner: You know what we tried at first? We were like alright, were going to do a remix a month of bands that are popular and hopefully get up on some blogs. And then we did uh…uh whats that band called…
Jack Inslee: The Mars Volta
Nat : We did a Mars Volta Remix
BL: Oh Word?
Aaron Ginsberg: Jared Leto’s band yea?
(laughter)
Nat: It worked, then we got up on some Mars Volta blogs -
AG: Oh really?
Nat: Yea but they were like “yea this is kinda cool,” its all Mars Volta fans. Not our fan base. We did the same thing with some other people but…it was sort of a good idea, but we just sorta… it was a combination of lack of self discipline and the fact that we also weren’t reaching the people we wanted to buy our shit, (to Jack) right?
Jack: Yea pretty much. But throwing parties, that’s the answer to that
BL: Yea?
Jack: Yea, cause I mean..who the fuck wants to hear music on its own anymore?
BL: True nowadays we’re past the record, I know what you mean.
Jack: So we did all these crazy raves with projectionists, glow sticks, etc.
AG: The have good parties yo.
BL: Where do you throw those parties?
Jack: We used to do them at club Love, but then they changed that place.
BL: Where’s club Love?
AG: Macdougal and Eighth Street like by the smoke-shops.
Nat: We did it at Glasslands a couple times too.
Jack: Was a little wack.
Nat: True. The other version, second version.
Jack: That’s the way we get attention.
Nat: And money.
Jack: This is crazy you never showed me this version.
Jack says referring to the the Knifeshow track playing in the background
Nat: This was for mixing into my set when Machine Drum was around.
AG: You guys work with Machine Drum?
Nat: He’s done my radio show a bunch of times.
AG: That’s the dude that fucks with ie.Merge right?
Nat: Yea.
AG: He is so ill dude.
Nat: He’s a genius.
BL: How are you around other talents like at venues or industry gathering. If at your parties, there are other music celebrities in the crowd, do you have like a solidarity thing? How do you feel about having to bump into other people that esteeming to take music as seriously as your taking music?
Jack: Allergic to certain people.
Nat: Yea I was going to say I do a radio show–
BL: Whats the name of the radio show?
Nat: Its called The Math and Science Show, on 89.1 FM, and I invite people that I’m feeling to come on and do sets. And I’m definitely in the school where I geek out and get nervous and its harder for me to act casual. If its just like some guy it doesn’t matter, but if it’s someone whose stuff I have been studying I always have mad questions.
Jack: I’m mean I don’t really care. In this kind of music, and the whole club DJ thing there are those that definitely don’t give a fuck about you and those who are humble. If it’s like that, then I’m pretty cool about it, but I can’t say if I was at that level I wouldn’t be the same way. What do they need to connect with people for?
Nat: I’m just generally a more shy nerdy kind of dude in general. I’d say you could definitely split up most DJ’s. Like especially the New York party guys, there’s definitely the school of just like “I’m a big fucking douchebag, I don’t give a fuck who you are” and then there’s the other side. Those are more the people that we end up working with, who are just like “Oh I’m also a fucking music nerd. I’m not going to pretend like I don’t work with computers all day for a living.”
Jack: If they spend more time on their outfit for a gig than their set it’s like -
Nat: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
BL: Yea I do see a lot of that. Dj’s have always been heralded as the party organizers but as of late it seems ubiquitous. Everyone I know with a computer is just at some bar.
Nat: It’s way easier to be a DJ these days.
Jack: We’d rather give all of our shit out. Every remix and every track – free – in hopes that a DJ’s going to find that, play it in their set–
BL: And dig it right?
Jack: Exactly. The money will come from the events.
BL: You guys ever have those nights where you party like rockstars? Are there feelings of regret or do you feel like you work hard enough to party hard, that happens.
Nat: Well that’s a quarter of the reason that we’re doing it. When I was younger I used to be straight ahead electronic music nerd guy and its way less fun than when you can be at a party with girls and drugs, and doing drugs with girls.
Jack: I’m more the type of dude to take it for free when its there. I’m not the type to take the gig money and be like, drinks for everybody.
BL: How does it feel knowing that other people regard you as an electronic ensemble knowing that they’re willing to blow you over just because you guys work behind these boards?
Nat: It’s all good I think most rock bands in the city suck ass.
Jack: Word I’d rather be referred to as such.
Nat: Most hater rock bands in the city are fucking homos. Yo, honestly, we’re better musicians than half the gay noise – or whatever – bands in the city.
BL: Word, some of that noise shit is retarded dude. So dumb.
AG: So bad right?
Jack: But like what can you do with a guitar drum and bass that hasn’t been done?
AG: If you have something I haven’t seen, I’ll definitely listen to you.
Nat: That’s true, it’s like what’s more played? Also, these bands are like “This is serious. That dance stuff is fun only if you’re drunk”.
Jack: The only bands I can get behind are on some crazy Flaming Lips type shit, shooting confetti, flashlights, and lasers type shit. That’s cool with me because that’s like having a circus.
BL: Right, it’s entertaining. So what’s your favorite thing in the morning to make it a good day like breakfast, songs, compulsion born of ADHD self actualization?
Jack: I gotta think about that…
Nat: That’s a hard question…
Jack: Spliff, Red Bull, bacon-egg-and cheese.
AG: AAYYEEE.
BL: Ooh that’s the universal.
AG: (Resounding/fading) YEAAH
BL: Okay, me too dude.
(laughter)
BL: How about you[Nat]?
Nat: That is a good answer. I’m going to have to say if its a nice day, a bike ride – even if its like three minutes, that sets the stage for pretty much anything.
BL: Also, what’s you’re go to hangover cure?
Jack: Pretty much the same.
BL: True, true that does take care of everything.
Nat: I’m going to say weed, porn, shower.
BL: Do you guys travel much, have you traveled together for shows?
Jack: We did a gig in Boston, he did something in Minneapolis.
Nat: Yeah, I did a festival in Minneapolis.
Jack: I think we’ve been focused on bringing up the crowd here. Trying to turn those parties out, but they sold they sold the club and we lost the spot. We just got some new shit.
BL: Do you use Facebook more during the day or night?
Nat: Work.
Jack: Day because we do this whole internet radio station for a living, sitting
in and working (sighs).
Nat: I fucking hate it too.
BL: Yeah me too, I don’t like being so locked into it either.
AG: Then you’re like why am I still on this.
Jack: I’m trying to use it more for just music and professional updates.
BL: A business tool. It’s not really a communicative device as it’s intended to be.
Nat: I use it like Aaron, like ‘Yo I just saw this fucking fat guy’ (laughter).
AG: I’m kinda talented with Facebook yea?
BL: Yea it’s not bad dude, you know how some people–
AG: They’re like, ‘I just had a great day’ (high pitched voice).
Jack: Well, yea its easy to fall into that though, it’s like therapy when you don’t have a shrink.
AG: I love when it’s like ‘I LOVE MY DAD!!’(weirder high pitched voice).
(laughter)
BL: Or like ‘I’m having sushi with the girls’, from some girl that you were in the 7th grade with.
AG: She has a baby.
BL: How do you feel about Facebook babies?
AG: Man, Facebook babies. Man, how many of your friends have babies?
Jack: Especially if you went to high school with a chick and she’s like, ‘me and my baby…’
[Aside] Aaron avidly defends his baby comment to a disputing Background Homie.
AG: I’m not trying to degrade anyone I’m just saying I’m older so I know mad dudes who have babies.
Nat: The one girl I know who has a baby, is the person I know the least capable of raising a human. This girl once did so much speed one night and woke up half blind and shes the only girl I know with a baby…
(hoots, hollering, whoas, diaphragm laughter)
BL: Which of the two of you cooks better?
(beat)
Jack: Ooh we’d probably fight about that.
Nat: Yeah that’s kind of contentious.
Jack: We do work for a food company. They stay giving us expensive ass pork chops to go home with. Free food, but really good food.
BL: Have you ever worked at a fast food joint, either of you?
Jack: I’ve worked at a supermarket. I worked a lot of spots.
BL: Yea? Name some.
Jack: Telemarketing. I worked for a wedding DJ.
BL: How was that?
Jack: That was crazy. They actually had me produce – they paid me $100 to make a sweet sixteen rap for a little girl. Her family would be like ‘She likes horses, the beach, her brothers’ name is Jake.’ I’d have to make a one minute rap song for $100.
BL: Oh my god.
AG: And you would rap, would you change your voice? (Jack nods, Aaron laughs). That’s a lot for a hundred dollars.
Jack: For sure but its like dude, I was fifteen at the time.
BL: I miss that feeling where there is a one in front of your age, you just made $100, and everything is perfect.
AG: Now its like $100 what am I going to do with this.
Jack: Its like, lets play cee-lo!
BL: When theres a toss up, you’re interested in spending time with your/a girl, but you know that you guys need to throw down and get to business, which is the easier choice?
Jack: Unfortunately, probably for both of us, the answer has been girls first.
BL: That’s not an unfortunate thing.
Nat: Self discipline.
Jack: You know I wish it was the other way around. I wish I could be more disciplined about work and what we have to do. But lately its been better because now that we have full time jobs we strap down and get things done.
Nat: If we had better self discipline, we’d be mad famous now.
BL: You guys are really sick. It’s just obvious when you hear the music, it doesn’t take long. Sometimes you have to listen to a track into the middle and whole time the person who’s introducing it to you is like, ‘wait for the breakdown.’ With you’re songs I’m nodding my head in like the first ten seconds, that really counts because like that’s kind of all the time you have.
Jack: I came from years and years of trying to make pop music and trying to make shit that would sell, or some catchy shit. He was more, locked in a bedroom trying to make some shit that no one has ever done before, so when we came together it sort of mixed that accessibility [to our respective styles].
BL: Where did you guys meet?
Jack: At NYU, wee both wen for music technology over there.
BL: How many years ago?
Jack: We graduated in ’08 so in ’04.
Background Homie: Let me ask a question?
BL: Cameo question on my interview, alright.
BGH: How do ya’ll feel about the radio?
Nat: Oh I love the radio, honestly I feel sad about the radio. Where the radio is right now, the same three companies own every radio station all across the country and everyone knows that. It’s Clear Channel -
BL: The big ones, Viacom?
Nat: So, that’s not the worst thing in the world because you still have Hot97 which is Clear Channel but is still fun to listen to.
Jack: But also, more fun when I was growing up.
AG: Totally, totally.
BGH: On the radio that’s how you sell records.
AG: Hot97 was so hot, so hype in the 90′s it was ridiculous.
Nat: That’s what I’m saying.
BL: It governed the streets.
Nat: The internet allows artists to do more things ever now.
(brief smoking intermission)
Jack: There something I want to say about the whole DJ thing just to clarify about the DJ’s that get to us the most and really piss us off. There are a lot of party DJ’s who consider themselves producers, or musicians, and they’ve never made a song. So they’re making a living off of playing other people’s music and they’re trying to say that they’re doing the same thing as we are. It’s just weird right now because it’s easy to trick the average person, you can’t explain this to them. They’re like ‘Well why do I care? If it makes me dance I don’t give a fuck.’
Nat: It’s all good to be just a DJ, but to be just a DJ with a musicians attitude is just absurd.
Jack: That’s the thing, yea. Those dudes might as well be wedding DJ’s that’s the same shit. But they end up making more money.
BL: If you’re willing to sell out its like -
Nat: You get money.
Jake: You got dude’s that sound like Girl Talk, selling records and doing shows just like copy, paste, copy, paste. It’s crazy.
BL: What equipment do you guys use?
Jack: Ableton with a few midi controllers, sometimes Nat uses Cubase, and we spin with Serato.
Nat: Mics, MPC turntables.
Jack: We have more plug ins than people would ever touch because we steal them.
Nat: I’m trying to – right now – to get into circuit bending. Getting toys and opening up a toy and crossing wires in a toy it just sounds crazy.
Jack: He introduced to me the whole concept of like yea making beats is cool but first I’m going to create this sound from scratch. Out of nowhere he’s making his own sound and then writing a song with it. So you build the tool and you use the tool. You can hear the difference.
AG: Can I as a theoretical question?
BL: Go for it.
AG: Okay, you are telling me about your favorite DJ right now. Like you say, a DJ like you and he spins live with two iPods. What does he do that makes him legit?
Nat: He goes home and he writes songs.
Jack: If every song he played off of two iPods, he created, then I’m like word
Nat: Two iPods is still pretty wack.
BL: How is your song development responsibility ratio?
Jack: Like some songs fall more on him and vice-versa but we try to keep a balance because otherwise it doesn’t feel like a collaborative thing. It there is something where he has done like 80% of the work I’m like, dude that’s your track. Finish that as you.
Nat: If there were any tip of the scale it would just be I’m better at sound design, rhythm shit, and he’s way better at melody and phrasing and song pacing.
Jack: Well because I come from like I said years of hip hop. I put out like five CD’s of my own shit but then I also recorded all the local rappers by my spot and I must have done like five thousand songs from age thirteen to eighteen. I did like Rakim’s nephew — local dudes.
AG: Tell him about your album “Hip Hop is Dead”.
Jack: Yea I put out Hip Hop is Dead before Nas like maybe two, three–
AG: Way before.
Jack: Yeah maybe before that.
BL: You know he has to know that.
Jack: Yeah, the dude that was managing me at the time assured me that he gave a copy to Nas and that was in 2003. Hip Hop is Dead came out in like 2007.
AG: 2009 maybe.
Jack: I got crucified for that shit one time. This is funny. The manager that was managing me at the time booked me for a show. I’d made t-shirts for the Hip Hop is dead CD, it really wasn’t accepted at the time. He booked me for a show at a community college. It paid $200. I’m like cool I’ll wear my Hip Hop is Dead t-shirt. I show up and it’s a Kwanzaa festival. I’m a white kid up on stage with a Hip Hop is dead shirt. And the way I opened my show was with this spoken word shit just like, killing hip hop, so they were ripping on me the whole night but by the end of the show the beats were hot enough they felt it.
BL: What would you say you holding off telling your parents until you are successful to the point that you want to be successful? Is there anything?
Jack: No, parents were split since I was one, but my pops came and built my studio when I was young, with me. He was down. For my mom – it was her spot so you had hood as motherfuckers and I’m fourteen years. They were coming down with blunts and whatever and she was like it’s okay, if it’s for music, it’s okay. For me it was always support.
Nat: My parents split up pretty early too. My dad moved to the west coast, my mom moved to the west coast. When I was in high school they were like, cool you want to be a musician. I pitched it to them more like, I’m going to be doing music technology. I’m going to be the engineer in a studio. But now that’s dead. There aren’t any more studios.
Jack: I interned at battery studios they would record anything from Havoc to Britney Spears. It was in midtown and they went bankrupt while I was interning, that’s how bad it was. It wasn’t just like a small studio, they did Jessica Simpson, Rhianna. For them to close down and not have enough money says a lot about where things are at.
AG: Sony Music Studios closed.
Nat: Hit Factory is dead, the Hit Factory now is like insurance commercials and that’s it.
Jack: It’s because back in the day you needed a big studio to have ten mics to record the horn section. But all the music that sells now is digital and a microphone. So why do you need a big studio? No you don’t, you need a mastering studio which is tiny.
BL: Could you also tell me where the name Knifeshow came from?
Jack: Knifeshow the name came from cable show. Three in the morning there is a TV show called Knife Show that is a home shopping network – you’ve never seen it? It’s like ‘We got a set of eighteen knives’.
BL: (Remembering) Yeah, I used to watch that show all the time!
Jack: Nat’s been on that shit for a hot minute.
BL: It used to come on super late.
Jack: By coincidence I used to be called Jack Knife.
BL: Oh that too.
Jack: It’s funny because I did all the hip hop and when I came to the city. I’m from Long Island. It was like nobody doing my kind of music, everyone was in a band.
BL: How do you feel about teenagers that discover your music in high school?
Jack: I love that shit.
BL: Do you meet any of them?
Jack: We throw those raves and there’s mad seventeen year old kids with their fake ID’s and shit but they’re like most passionate.
Nat: Yeah, they’ll be like, ‘dude when is the next one? That was fucking sick!’, and then they bring thirteen people.
Jack: They’re all on ecstasy and shit.
BL: Yea at that age you don’t really have time to joke around.
Jack: No they’re fun, I like that.
Nat: No bullshit
